PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I'll take the appearances. Mr Bruno, you appear for the SDA?

PN2

MR BRUNO: I do, your Honour. I seek leave.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Thank you. Mr Crawford, you appear for the AWU?

PN4

MR CRAWFORD: Yes, your Honour.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Sivarajah, you appear for the Australian Ski Areas Association.

PN6

MR SIVARAJAH: Yes, your Honour. If it please the Commission.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Sivarajah, I can't hear you very clearly. Can you get closer - - -

PN8

MR SIVARAJAH: I beg your pardon, Vice President. Yes. If it pleases the Commission I do appear for the ASAA.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I can hear you just, but can you just get a bit closer to whatever device you are using. '

PN10

MR SIVARAJAH: I am right next to the phone. Hopefully this is better, Vice President.

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. I'll see if I can turn up the volume. That's as much as the volume goes. All right.

PN12

So Mr Bruno, what's your estimation about what would be involved in hearing this application?

PN13

MR BRUNO: Your Honour, I understand my instructor Mr Macken has spoken to my friend who appears today and they've discussed provisionally a timetable. Would it assist if I outlined my understanding of what that is?

PN14

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN15

MR BRUNO: What I understand is that the SDA would like a minimum of four weeks to put on material. I then understand that the Australian Ski Areas Association would obviously like to respond after that with material. I think four weeks was foreshadowed, but it might be that my friend considered because of COVID issues it might be necessary for them to have a little bit more time.

PN16

We are, of course, amenable to that. And once they've provided their material we would like an opportunity to reply. So we'd say two weeks from that should suffice.

PN17

In terms of the nature of the case, the Commission will have seen that it's an application to vary the coverage term which is to essentially narrow coverage by removing from the Alpine Resorts Award employees that are covered by the general awards that are of concern to the SDA, the three awards that are listed in the application.

PN18

It might not be a case where the evidence - where the SDA intends to put on much evidence at all. I will need to go through that and consider that in more detail, but certainly submissions. But I understand the ASAA does intend to put on some evidence.

PN19

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Thank you. And so where might that go in terms of the possible length of the hearing?

PN20

MR BRUNO: That's a good question. It's difficult for me to estimate. I would have thought a day to two days. It really does depend on the nature and extent of evidence of course. Could I ask the Vice President what the Commission is currently doing in terms of listing matters in light of the COVID restriction?

PN21

THE VICE PRESIDENT: We are doing what we can.

PN22

MR BRUNO: Yes.

PN23

THE VICE PRESIDENT: We are using, we are conducting hearings by telephone or by video facilities using Microsoft teams so we can take evidence if we need to.

PN24

MR BRUNO: I see.

PN25

THE VICE PRESIDENT: But on this timetable we might be moving past that phase by then.

PN26

MR BRUNO: Yes, hopefully.

PN27

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. So we are proceeding with our hearings as far as we can.

PN28

MR BRUNO: Yes. So at this stage it's difficult for me to give the Commission a more reliable estimate than other than one to two days. I am wondering whether it might be useful if once the evidence and submissions are in that the parties provide an updated estimate. I don't know if the Commission can accommodate that. Just so no days are wasted in terms of any listing by the Commission.

PN29

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I will hear what the other parties say. What I am inclined to do at this stage is to simply make directions for the filing of evidence and submissions and then have another - once the material on, then have another directions hearing to set the hearing date. '

PN30

MR BRUNO: As the Commission pleases.

PN31

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. All right. Mr Crawford, are you aligned with the SDA's interests in this matter?

PN32

MR CRAWFORD: Yes. That's correct, your Honour. We don't imagine we will be filing extensive material and we take no issue with anything that's been proposed by the SDA or the proposal that you just mentioned either.

PN33

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Mr Sivarajah.

PN34

MR SIVARAJAH: Vice President, that's correct. We did have some discussions with the SDAEA. We did discuss provisionally the timetable which Mr Bruno is proposing. However, we would ask if we could extend that a little, just because of the impact of COVID-19 and the concern from our end about resources going forward.

PN35

So if the Court was - if the Commission was minded, we would be seeking six weeks to put on the evidence. Six weeks for the applicant to put on their submissions and evidence. Six weeks for us to put on our evidence and submissions and then a further two weeks for the applicant's to put submissions in reply to our submissions.

PN36

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Thank you. Well, I can say this generally. I don't know whether there will be a ski season this year. But it seems to me that there's no chance of this case being determined before the end of the current ski season if there is one. So it doesn't seem to me that there's huge urgency in the matter as long as it's resolved, say, by the end of the year. Is that reasonable, Mr Bruno?

PN37

MR BRUNO: Yes, it is. And (indistinct) my instructions today are that the SDA is alive to the issues facing the Commission and also the respondent, and also the SDA in light of COVID restrictions. So we don't take issue with that.

PN38

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Thank you for those submissions. So what I will do is I indicate that I will grant the SDA and any parties supporting the SDA, which is presumably the AWU six weeks to put on any evidence and an outline of submissions. Six weeks for the Australian Ski Areas Association and any other party opposing the application to put on their material, and then two weeks in reply and then approximately a week after that I will schedule a directions hearing.

PN39

So I will have formal directions to that effect with dates et cetera prepared and they will be issued later today. Is there anything further I can deal with now?

PN40

MR BRUNO: Not from my perspective, your Honour.

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Sivarajah?

PN42

MR SIVARAJAH: Vice President, just one point of clarification. The two weeks in reply they would be on the submissions going to our submissions, rather than any further evidence?

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: It could conceivably include evidence in reply, I suppose. But if - we will have a directions hearing after the material is on and if there's some prejudice or difficulty has arisen because of that, you can raise it then.

PN44

MR SIVARAJAH: Thank you, Vice President.

PN45

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Those directions will be issued later today. I thank the parties for their attendance and we will now adjourn.

PN46

MR BRUNO: Thank you, your Honour.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.08 AM]