PN1

JUSTICE ROSS: Good morning. It's Ross J. I have Clancy DP and Bissett C on the line. Could I have the appearances for APESMA, please.

PN2

MS M ANTHONY: Yes, your Honour. My name's Anthony M and I appear on behalf of APESMA.

PN3

JUSTICE ROSS: All right, thank you, and for the CEPU?

PN4

MS A AMBIHAIPAHAR: May it please the Commission, Ambihaipahar, initial A. I appear on behalf of the CEPU.

PN5

JUSTICE ROSS: Thank you. Ms Anthony, as you will have seen the CEPU's opposing the application. What do you wish to say in relation to your application?

PN6

MS ANTHONY: Your Honour, I would speak only briefly. We've issued the application along with 11 or similar applications seeking to have schedule X inserted into 11 awards that cover our members but in relation to the Electrical Power Industry Award, to be honest, because we've had to issue it with some haste, I hadn't actually realised that schedule X wasn't inserted in the April process and, however, we do support the insertion of schedule X as a responsible measure. Our membership, we have a large proportion of members who are not covered by collective agreements and so the award does provide a safety net.

PN7

We see it as quite possibly an entitlement that may not be utilised very often by many of our members who probably have a capacity to work from home more than most but on the other hand, I'd probably say it could be utilised possibly by new employees who do not have paid leave or the chronically ill who may have used up all their paid leave. However, I don't propose to sort of contest the matter with making further submissions and other just to sort of give that introduction to the purpose of issuing the application and I'm happy to leave it in the Commission's hands to deal wit it as they would in the April process and that's mainly what I was intending to say in relation to the matter.

PN8

JUSTICE ROSS: Okay. Ms Ambihaipahar, is that the correct pronunciation?

PN9

MS AMBIHAIPAHAR: Yes, your Honour. Well, like, if it's easier Ambi is fine.

PN10

JUSTICE ROSS: All right, thank you. Ms Ambi, look, when I saw this application come in, I had wondered whether there'd been a change of view but as is apparent from your correspondence, and you set out the reasons why on the previous occasion the other Full Bench had not, which I was also a member of, had not moved to insert schedule X into this award. Namely, that this was - the award covered an area that was unlikely to be, in the short term, impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic and also it was extensively covered by enterprise agreements.

PN11

Look, I wanted to put to you a potential course of action in relation to APESMA's application and to test each of you, whether you would agree to that course. If you take Ms Anthony's point that, unlike the CEPU's members, for example, there are APESMA members who are not covered by any enterprise agreement and it may be worthwhile, if we adjourn the application generally and permit - provide a time period or just at large, to enable the CEPU and APESMA to have further discussions and it may be that you're able to resolve the matter on the basis of a schedule X with limited application.

PN12

For example, when you look at the award and, Ms Ambi, I make this observation sort of in a position of almost ignorance about your coverage in relation to the award so don't think I'm wanting to exclude you from coverage, but there is a classification group called professional, managerial and specialist grades which, on its face, would seem to be the area of most interest to APESMA. It may be that that's of less to the CEPU in which case what you could do is have a schedule X that only applies to employees who are classified as professional, managerial or specialists and that then protects their interests because they're not covered by an enterprise agreement and it doesn't prejudice the position of your organisation that you've taken in these proceedings.

PN13

What I was suggesting is that the matter - we, the Full Bench, adjourn the matter to provide you with an opportunity to discuss that matter between yourselves, I'd encourage you to discuss it with any other parties that you're aware of with an interest in these proceedings, and then you could report back to the Full Bench indicating where you've got up to. If, for example, you agree on a schedule with a particular limited scope of application, if I could put it that way, you could indicate that and we could then express a provisional view about that and provide anyone else with an opportunity to comment.

PN14

If nobody - if our provisional view was to support what you've come up with and nobody opposed it, then we could simply vary it on the papers. What do you both think about that? Ms Ambi first.

PN15

MS AMBIHAIPAHAR: This is an application by APESMA so I'm happy to get instructions and liaise with them basically doing a carve out specifically, that's my understanding.

PN16

JUSTICE ROSS: Yes.

PN17

MS AMBIHAIPAHAR: I'd obviously have to get instructions but from the CEPU's perspective that sounds like a reasonable option.

PN18

JUSTICE ROSS: All right, thanks, Ms Ambi. I'm not seeking to get you to commit to what the outcome might be. It's really that you'll participate in discussions with APESMA about the matter.

PN19

MS AMBIHAIPAHAR: Sure. Just further to that, my concern was the application really didn't address the modern award objectives. I mean, we're relying on bold assertions from APESMA so that would assist if there's some sort of basis as to - in respect of their membership that this is required. I'm sure we should be able to assist.

PN20

JUSTICE ROSS: All right, thank you. Ms Anthony, are you content with that course?

PN21

MS ANTHONY: Yes, your Honour, we are happy to agree to that course of action.

PN22

JUSTICE ROSS: All right. Well, can I - I haven't had the opportunity to discuss the matter with my colleagues on the bench and I might now seek an indication from Clancy DP and Bissett C as to whether they would agree with that course, that is that we simply adjourn the application, provide the interested parties with an opportunity to confer and you can advise us as to the outcome of those discussions in due course. Deputy president?

PN23

DEPUTY PRESIDENT CLANCY: Thank you, your Honour. I support the course of action that you outline and note the parties' agreement to it.

PN24

JUSTICE ROSS: All right, thanks. Commissioner?

PN25

COMMISSIONER BISSETT: Yes, thank you, your Honour. I'm content with that course of action.

PN26

JUSTICE ROSS: All right. Well, Ms Anthony, that's the course we'll take in relation to your application. We'll now adjourn it and you can have discussions with the CEPU and other interested parties and advise us as to the outcome of those discussions in due course, okay.

PN27

MS ANTHONY: Yes, thank you, your Honour.

PN28

JUSTICE ROSS: All right. We'll adjourn. Thank you very much.

PN29

MS AMBIHAIPAHAR: Thank you.

PN30

MS ANTHONY: Thank you.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.14 AM]